AS to get Etops Cert on 738's
(Excerpt from Airliners.net )
No link to post since this is courtesy of the company's employee newspaper (print version only so far), but here's an excerpt from one of the recent articles:
This week, the (Flight Operations) division notified the FAA that it plans to begin the certification process for Extended Twin-Engine Operations (ETOPS) for a portion of its 737-800 fleet.
"Without life vests or rafts, our aircraft must stay within 50 nautical miles of land," said Scott Ridge, managing director of technical operations and support.
"Along with equipping our -800s with life rafts, ETOPS will give us the ability to fly the most direct over-water routes to Cancun, saving time and money. And it will allow us to apply for additional markets to Cancun under a new bilateral agreement between the United States and Mexico."
Ridge said, "Although there has been no decision on any new markets, we have decided to move forward with the ETOPS process for our 737-800s. This will eliminate the time and expense of retrofitting existing aircraft in the future, putting us in a position to take advantage of potential new opportunities to destinations like Hawaii."
:D :D
And you can charge a premium in back for ANC-HNL since it saves scores of hours off connections (so that should be worth an extra $100 a seat). Large families will probably still choose to save the cash and spend the time connecting through SEA (either on AS or via NW connection) or forgo the miles and fly direct on HA.
I also hear that Alaska would ultimately like to go to an all 738 fleet eventually, though that may be a while.
Pax traffic trends must be looking pretty good. ^
The 800 has 3 lavs (2 in rear of main cabin). IIRC, subsequent deliveries will have 4 lavs (3 in rear of main cabin).
AS already flys to all of Hawaiian's lower 48 destinations, so that is a good fit. It would also be pretty cool to fly AS to Pago Pago, Papeete and Sydney. ^
All I'm saying is that there will (eventually) be 3 lavs in the main cabin, which should help in the defense against exploding yogurt and salad dressing. :D
All of our -800s and -900s are all lifevest equipped however.
Was on an -800 from PHX to SEA last Wednesday. Was (pleasantly) surprised at the live vest demonstration!
This morning, I flew on a -700 from SEA to PHX. The FA was complaining about her flights on the -800. She said that the aisles were too narrow and there were only 2 lavs. In addition, a pax somehow managed to get yogurt all over her rear end. "Be very careful when opening the yogurt...as it may have pressurized during takeoff!!!" :D
(Excerpt from Airliners.net )
No link to post since this is courtesy of the company's employee newspaper (print version only so far), but here's an excerpt from one of the recent articles:
This week, the (Flight Operations) division notified the FAA that it plans to begin the certification process for Extended Twin-Engine Operations (ETOPS) for a portion of its 737-800 fleet.
"Without life vests or rafts, our aircraft must stay within 50 nautical miles of land," said Scott Ridge, managing director of technical operations and support.
"Along with equipping our -800s with life rafts, ETOPS will give us the ability to fly the most direct over-water routes to Cancun, saving time and money. And it will allow us to apply for additional markets to Cancun under a new bilateral agreement between the United States and Mexico."
Ridge said, "Although there has been no decision on any new markets, we have decided to move forward with the ETOPS process for our 737-800s. This will eliminate the time and expense of retrofitting existing aircraft in the future, putting us in a position to take advantage of potential new opportunities to destinations like Hawaii."
:D :D
So, was on a 738 today from LAX to SEA, either the 1st or 2nd, not the .com one, and still had the old 1st class seats. It did appear to have the rafts in the celing, and life vests under all the seats. Has it been ETOP'D already?
I have a friend who has been trying to find an affordable way to get fresh Alaska salmon to Hawaii. I know he will be happy to see competition in that market. The only flight that I spotted that goes directly to Hawaii from ANC is the NW ANC-OGG flight and as of April that only returns once a week. Are there other Alaska-Hawaii flights?
No, just equipped for overwater ops (like the -900s).
And if applied for direct route, when is an usual schedule change announced?
b
You made my night... am still laughing.... and a good point as well
Ridge said, "Although there has been no decision on any new markets, we have decided to move forward with the ETOPS process for our 737-800s. This will eliminate the time and expense of retrofitting existing aircraft in the future, putting us in a position to take advantage of potential new opportunities to destinations like Hawaii."
:D :D
Flew thru SFO this weekend. The ticket counter said AS will start SEA-HNL and ANC-HNL starting this September!! Anyone have more info?
Not so fast. For most of the season, NW operates 3x 753 service to Hawaii. Hawaiian typically operates 2x 763 service.
NW 89 8:40 am departure to HNL
NW 97 5:30 pm departure to HNL
NW 95 3:00 pm departure to OGG/KOA
HA 21 8:45 am departure to HNL
HA 29 10:00 am departure to OGG
You probably only thought of HNL...
Jiburi
Another posting I read previously in this thread mentioned airlines that would be a good merger option. I've thought about this a few times myself. I think an excellent merger would be Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines. Why?
The two airlines serve two of our very unique states in the US...Alaska and Hawaii. The merger would bring alot of great options for all including:
+ Switch the interisland to Horizon, keep the great 717's going as they are. Would be closer and better to comete against the proposed Mesa Air expansion into HI that is about to take place.
+ The larger aircraft of 767 could be used mostly for the Mainland to HI flights, adding many possibilities of cities that AS serves at present. The 767s could also be used on the heavier transcon traffic (SEA-EWR etc)
+ They could continue to move forward with 737 ETOPS and serve the markets they serve more efficiently and use them on lower volume/lower freight Mainland/HI flights.
+ AS is on pretty solid financial ground, and HI just brought itself back up to profit making status. If there's safety in numbers, this would give a stronger financial structure as one company.
+A merger like this would be less of a corporate shock to both, as I think alot of the culture that both airlines share would not be lost. It would actually be building blocks to something the competition shows a huge lack of (friendly, non-corporate mind set, focus on passengers etc)
Alrightey, just thought I'd throw that one out there.
C-A-R-G-O, C-A-R-G-O, C-A-R-G-O and Cargo is its NAME-O. Airlines claiming to be "losing buckets" on these HI flights may only be losing it above the cargo hold, but they can make buckets underneath.
The FA was referring to MAIN CABIN lavs (not the FORWARD lavs). Sorry that I wasn't specific enough. I thought that everyone would understand what she was saying. :rolleyes:
Considering that American hasn't severed its relationship with AS over Dallas and Chicago non-stops, I wonder if it'll just be considered another opp for HA to sell continuing flights.
I believe AS dominates the West Coast to Mexico's leisure destinations without much competition, so they don't have to rely on biz travelers. But we already have NW and HA flying the SEA/PDX-HNL routes, so AS got to make sure this is the right thing to do because they are the late comers. In turns of operating costs, flying 757 and 767 on long haul got to be more economical than the 738s.
The plus side is both NW and HA flights from SEA and HNL have had good load factors in recent years (based on my periodic check on their seat maps, so not scientific), and AS got a loyal customer base in the Pacific Northwest.
Well, compeition is always good for the customers.
BW
The new lack of ETOPS restrictions will also probably allow for AS a/c to follow less congested flightpaths up and down the busy West Coast corridors. I believe jetBlue uses this strategy with their ETOPS-equipped A320s.
Aaron G.
On the SEA-BOS last weekend the FA was talking about it too. Just for comparison info SEA-MIA is 2724 miles and ANC-ORD is 2846. ANC-HNL is 2777 and SEA-HNL is 2677.
From the Boeing site specified Range for a 737-800 is 3060 nm (3519 statute). The -900 is 2700-3200 nm depending on seating and aux tanks.
I look forward to flying Alasko to Hawaii.
As Altaflyer stated, there will probably be changes to the mileage plan -- and not in a good way. we will see....
every domestic airline considers hawaii different form the US49 for its FF program. for example, on DL, you can get a medallion upgrade on the ATL-ANC non-stop (over 8hrs) but nothing on LAX-HNL. i dont see AS being any different (less than 5hrs).
but maybe they will surprise us. thank us for our loyalty....
The new lack of ETOPS restrictions will also probably allow for AS a/c to follow less congested flightpaths up and down the busy West Coast corridors. I believe jetBlue uses this strategy with their ETOPS-equipped A320s.
Aaron G.
Why does everyone say that? Is a 1x 753 on Northwest and a 1x 767 from Hawaiian really "saturated"? Yes, they can operate the leg cheaper perhaps, but they don't have the base here that AS does. I know a number of people who would take an AS flight at the drop of a hat if they opened up service. 500 seats a day isn't that saturted when I know people who have to route through SFO and LAX to get flights that work for them...
AS operates flights to seven leisure destinations in Mexico and two in Florida. I fail to see the logic of a market strategy myopically based on the business traveler. I would suggest that mix of demand would be the best focus. AS has devoted allot effort to their vacations segment and it seems to be a solid revenue source.
Another posting I read previously in this thread mentioned airlines that would be a good merger option. I've thought about this a few times myself. I think an excellent merger would be Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines. Why?
The two airlines serve two of our very unique states in the US...Alaska and Hawaii. The merger would bring alot of great options for all including:
+ Switch the interisland to Horizon, keep the great 717's going as they are. Would be closer and better to comete against the proposed Mesa Air expansion into HI that is about to take place.
+ The larger aircraft of 767 could be used mostly for the Mainland to HI flights, adding many possibilities of cities that AS serves at present. The 767s could also be used on the heavier transcon traffic (SEA-EWR etc)
+ They could continue to move forward with 737 ETOPS and serve the markets they serve more efficiently and use them on lower volume/lower freight Mainland/HI flights.
+ AS is on pretty solid financial ground, and HI just brought itself back up to profit making status. If there's safety in numbers, this would give a stronger financial structure as one company.
+A merger like this would be less of a corporate shock to both, as I think alot of the culture that both airlines share would not be lost. It would actually be building blocks to something the competition shows a huge lack of (friendly, non-corporate mind set, focus on passengers etc)
Alrightey, just thought I'd throw that one out there.
I'm skeptical about a merger. I think HA is in really bad shape even despite emerging from BK. I think AS would be better off just invading the market and driving HA out of business.
Sorry if I was a little cranky. I struggle with the proper amount of detail on this board. Sometimes, I feel that too much detail can detract from the main point that I am trying to make. On the other hand, I don't like to look ignorant of what is actually happening with AS.
Of course, a 3rd lav in Y will be most welcome. ^
Airlines routinely complain about lackluster revenue on flights to HI and Hawaiian won't respond well to this attack...In fact, they just purchased some of DL's 767-300's so maybe they will ramp up traffic at AS cities and lower the prices a bit...
Also, NWA uses AS to feed quite a bit of traffic into SEA for thier flights to HI. This can't be good for their relationship..
I think this is another blunder, a leisure market with little business demand. They'll have a lot of coach passengers looking for a cheap flight and these flights will require maximum utilization of these aircraft. I find it hard to believe that they would be more profitable then filling up the planes and making a couple roundtrips to Socal or LAS where they definitely need some added capacity since airfares have running around $300 and there is more business demand. They can turn these planes around a couple of times instead of sending them across the pacific...
I hope these management blunders don't pave the way for CO to come in and take over AS...
Let the haters begin...
I wonder what the pricing will be. NW's SEA-HNL can be had in the ~$500 range at times and UA, via SFO can be had at ~$400ish.
Agreed. But wouldn't it fun to see QX flights hopping around the islands! :cool:
Airlines routinely complain about lackluster revenue on flights to HI and Hawaiian won't respond well to this attack...In fact, they just purchased some of DL's 767-300's so maybe they will ramp up traffic at AS cities and lower the prices a bit...
Also, NWA uses AS to feed quite a bit of traffic into SEA for thier flights to HI. This can't be good for their relationship..
I think this is another blunder, a leisure market with little business demand. They'll have a lot of coach passengers looking for a cheap flight and these flights will require maximum utilization of these aircraft. I find it hard to believe that they would be more profitable then filling up the planes and making a couple roundtrips to Socal or LAS where they definitely need some added capacity since airfares have running around $300 and there is more business demand. They can turn these planes around a couple of times instead of sending them across the pacific...
I hope these management blunders don't pave the way for CO to come in and take over AS...
Let the haters begin...
Actually, while the traffic to HNL is primarily leisure, this will be a great way for frequent travelers to burn off miles. This is a benefit to Alaska and our frequent travelers. Alaska takes a hit every year because of the amount of oustanding miles on the books. HNL might not be a huge money maker for us up front but if it reduces the hit we take because of miles on our books then that's a good thing.
As for CO taking Alaska over, if any airline were to take us over I would hope for it to be CO. They seem to be a well managed airline with fairly happy employees. They still aren't turning a profit, but things are shifting for them.
The other perspective is fleet management. For example, NW's services to HNL. Many are done to maximize aircraft utilization.
Since NW's hubs are MSP/DTW/MEM, any aircraft that lands in the West Coast in the afternoon is a liability until redeye time. It really can't go anywhere, as their hubs are too far, and when you add the time zones, would land too late in their midwestern hubs.
So, imagine the 2pm-ish arrivals into SFO. One from DTW and one from MSP. Ok, they can flip one around for a late SFO-MSP, but that still leaves you with an aircraft that can't go anywhere.
Now you have a 5pm-ish pair or arrivals into SFO, perhaps a couple 7pm's, and maybe an 11pm. That leaves you 5 more aircraft, plus one from before, and at most two (2) redeye possibilities. So what did NW do? They took one of those spare aircraft and ran it to SFO-HNL-SFO, just to return in time for the morning run. Is it the most profitable flight in the world? Probably not, but since the plane was there anyway, so long as they can cover the fuel and labor, it's not like they're offsetting any routes to serve Hawaii out of SFO.
Delta has been using the same strategy for years with LAX-OGG, LAX-HNL, and SFO-HNL.
How does this apply to AS? Well, AS doesn't have the same problem NW has with excess aircraft too far from its hubs. Any plane that lands in the West Coast can do a short West Coast hop since AS has a West Coast hub. That means the costs to run SEA-HNL-SEA for AS will be more than it is for some of its competitors such as NW and DL, as AS will have to allocate an otherwise usable aircraft to this run. So I better hope they have the economics of this worked out, and it works out well for them.
Actually, I believe that all but two of our 738's will be ETOPS equipped. The first two that we took delivery of last year will not be initially, but I believe the plan is to retrofit them. So, this shouldn't be so much of a problem really. I also hear that Alaska would ultimately like to go to an all 738 fleet eventually, though that may be a while.
Airlines routinely complain about lackluster revenue on flights to HI and Hawaiian won't respond well to this attack...In fact, they just purchased some of DL's 767-300's so maybe they will ramp up traffic at AS cities and lower the prices a bit...
Also, NWA uses AS to feed quite a bit of traffic into SEA for thier flights to HI. This can't be good for their relationship..
I think this is another blunder, a leisure market with little business demand. They'll have a lot of coach passengers looking for a cheap flight and these flights will require maximum utilization of these aircraft. I find it hard to believe that they would be more profitable then filling up the planes and making a couple roundtrips to Socal or LAS where they definitely need some added capacity since airfares have running around $300 and there is more business demand. They can turn these planes around a couple of times instead of sending them across the pacific...
I hope these management blunders don't pave the way for CO to come in and take over AS...
Let the haters begin...
I can honestly not think of a reason why AS could not fill up a 738 with paying pax on 1 flight/day from SEA-HNL. It couldn't be any harder to fill up a plane than SEA-MCO or SEA-MIA and certainly has to be more profitable. How many of us have bought a transcon for $200.00 on AS? Most of us have. However, I can't ever think of a time where there have been fares cheaper than $300-350 on HA or NW. The CASM alone will be a benifit to AS as everyone else flys larger jets with the exception of AQ.
:D
That's the truth - I've worn more yogurt over the years.....
:D
Excellent advice! Those items always make for a good little mess don't they ;)
BW
Actually, the 757-200's and 757-300's are going to be the most economical of all airplanes on longer flights. However, AS has a very dense configuration of 16F/144Y on the 738 and will definitely be cost competitive with HA's 763s and NW's 753s.
BW
i dont see $50.00 companion tickets and comp MVP Gold upgrades in a new hawaii market.
As Altaflyer stated, there will probably be changes to the mileage plan -- and not in a good way. we will see....
every domestic airline considers hawaii different form the US49 for its FF program. for example, on DL, you can get a medallion upgrade on the ATL-ANC non-stop (over 8hrs) but nothing on LAX-HNL. i dont see AS being any different (less than 5hrs).
but maybe they will surprise us. thank us for our loyalty....
:D
Exactly!
But we won't talk about the time I almost required stiches after trying to cut open a bagel at 6am on a flight a few years back! (AA flyers may remember the bagel/banana breakfast...)
Always take your fork and use one of the tines to puncture a hole in the foil top before opening any kind of yogurt, dressing, etc. at altitude...
:D
All of our -800s and -900s are all lifevest equipped however.
HA flies HNL-ANC on a charter basis for Hawaiian Vacations, usually twice a week, sometimes more depending on the time of year (i.e. Christmas, spring break), but always year-round.
NW is a little more picky about when they do their ANC-OGG-HNL-ANC triangle, generally sticking to the . It fluctuates between 3 and 4 times a week from about December to April, then goes away in the spring. Last year they ran it during the summer months 3x weekly, but that doesn't seem to be on the schedule, at least not yet.
The Hawaii run from ANC makes good utilization for NW, since otherwise the plane would sit parked at gate B10 for about 15 hours.
For me, this will add significant value to our MVPG benifits (I hope.) Thats what I will be using my 50$ companion certs and MVPG Guest upgrades on!
I'm guessing 2-3 times a year at least.... and finally Hilton is operating a property on Maui now!
#If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.# |